From edd at usefulinc.com Tue Jul 20 23:32:17 2004
From: edd at usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill)
Date: Tue Jul 20 23:32:38 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] list now public
Message-ID: <1090362738.3368.0.camel@nova.heddley.com>
The doap-interest list is now public subscription, public archives.
I'll be launching DOAP more formally over the next week.
-- Edd
From crschmid at uiuc.edu Thu Jul 22 18:41:44 2004
From: crschmid at uiuc.edu (Christopher Schmidt)
Date: Thu Jul 22 18:46:42 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] DOAP icon, rel="meta"
Message-ID: <20040722174144.GA20349@zeus.crschmidt.net>
I've created DOAP metadata using stork's announced-in-#rdfig
DOAP-a-matic. I've uploaded the file (minimal, cause I'm just finishing
my lunch break right now) to my project, and linked it in the as
the following:
Is this an okay usage? Is there a better suggestion to use?
Also, I'd like to know if there's an icon that is being used for DOAP,
or a suggested linking principle for visible linking. Anyone have any
resources for that or suggestions? I'm not sure whether the preferred
way is something like RSS's orange XML button, or something more along
the lines of a FOAF button, with little foaflets in some kind of
programming sistuation.
Very excited about the project!
--
Christopher Schmidt
crschmidt@wedu.com
From edd at usefulinc.com Thu Jul 22 18:51:12 2004
From: edd at usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill)
Date: Thu Jul 22 18:51:24 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] DOAP icon, rel="meta"
In-Reply-To: <20040722174144.GA20349@zeus.crschmidt.net>
References: <20040722174144.GA20349@zeus.crschmidt.net>
Message-ID: <1090518672.4294.2.camel@nova.heddley.com>
On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 13:41 -0400, Christopher Schmidt wrote:
> I've created DOAP metadata using stork's announced-in-#rdfig
> DOAP-a-matic.
Nice.
> I've uploaded the file (minimal, cause I'm just finishing
> my lunch break right now) to my project, and linked it in the as
> the following:
>
> href="http://sdlroads.sourceforge.net/doap.rdf" />
>
> Is this an okay usage? Is there a better suggestion to use?
So far there's no convention. Let's make this it. Just add in
type="application/rdf+xml" too.
> Also, I'd like to know if there's an icon that is being used for DOAP,
> or a suggested linking principle for visible linking. Anyone have any
> resources for that or suggestions? I'm not sure whether the preferred
> way is something like RSS's orange XML button, or something more along
> the lines of a FOAF button, with little foaflets in some kind of
> programming sistuation.
I'd like to see a decent one drawn. Maybe I'll run a competition :)
> Very excited about the project!
Excellent! And congrats on being adopter #1.
-- Edd
From balbinus at bonjourlesmouettes.org Thu Jul 22 19:09:21 2004
From: balbinus at bonjourlesmouettes.org (balbinus)
Date: Thu Jul 22 19:08:07 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] DOAP-a-matic
Message-ID:
Hi everyone,
I've made a "DOAP-a-matic" tool in order to allow people to create their
DOAP data online. Here it is: . It doesn't accept (for the moment!) complicated stuff
(repositories, people, etc... everything that need a class), but it will!
Comments are welcomed, by mail or on my blog
()!
Cordialement,
Vincent TABARD
http://www.balbinus.net
http://www.terratettofiorentino.com
http://www.fluorine-cms.net
http://www.radiopytagor.com
http://prgmti.balbinus.net
http://rdfpic.balbinus.net
http://www.sidar.org/wshoy/
http://www.bonjourlesmouettes.org
PS: Edd: *I* created my DOAP file first ;) lol (but that's true ;)
From bnowack at appmosphere.com Thu Jul 22 19:11:15 2004
From: bnowack at appmosphere.com (Benjamin Nowack)
Date: Thu Jul 22 19:11:44 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] domain of doap:module
Message-ID:
Hi,
here is fix for the multi-domain description of doap:module:
[[[
...
]]]
regards,
benjamin
--
Benjamin Nowack
Kruppstr. 100
45145 Essen, Germany
http://www.appmosphere.com/
From steve at fooworks.com Thu Jul 22 19:13:29 2004
From: steve at fooworks.com (Steve Mallett)
Date: Thu Jul 22 19:15:07 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] DOAP-a-matic
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <410003C9.2020408@fooworks.com>
balbinus wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've made a "DOAP-a-matic" tool in order to allow people to create their
> DOAP data online. Here it is: creator.php>. It doesn't accept (for the moment!) complicated stuff
> (repositories, people, etc... everything that need a class), but it will!
>
> Comments are welcomed, by mail or on my blog
> ()!
I hope to get a chance to add a DOAP field to project listings at OSDir
while on the plane out to OSCON tomorrow.
--
Steve Mallett
http://steve.osdir.com
From danbri at w3.org Thu Jul 22 19:26:40 2004
From: danbri at w3.org (Dan Brickley)
Date: Thu Jul 22 19:26:51 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] domain of doap:module
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <20040722182640.GP31660@homer.w3.org>
* Benjamin Nowack [2004-07-22 20:11+0200]
>
> Hi,
>
> here is fix for the multi-domain description of doap:module:
(a fix not because multiple domains are inherently broken, but because
they didn't match the intended meaning for this property, right?)
> [[[
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ]]]
Are these the only kinds of Repository we'd ever expect to see
doap:module applied to? If not, maybe a looser construct, perhaps via a
the common superclass "Repository"? Then we could just say
that doap:module has an rdfs:domain of doap:Repository, and allow
subclasses of that to evolve over time?
Dan
From bnowack at appmosphere.com Thu Jul 22 19:46:38 2004
From: bnowack at appmosphere.com (Benjamin Nowack)
Date: Thu Jul 22 19:47:05 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] domain of doap:module
In-Reply-To: <20040722182640.GP31660@homer.w3.org>
References:
<20040722182640.GP31660@homer.w3.org>
Message-ID:
On 22.07.2004 14:26:40, Dan Brickley wrote:
>* Benjamin Nowack [2004-07-22 20:11+0200]
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> here is fix for the multi-domain description of doap:module:
>
>(a fix not because multiple domains are inherently broken, but because
>they didn't match the intended meaning for this property, right?)
yes, sorry, I was a bit context-less..
>...
>
>Are these the only kinds of Repository we'd ever expect to see
>doap:module applied to? If not, maybe a looser construct, perhaps via a
>the common superclass "Repository"? Then we could just say
>that doap:module has an rdfs:domain of doap:Repository, and allow
>subclasses of that to evolve over time?
that's what I thought, too, so that owl stuff could be skipped.
edd said there are repositories that don't have modules, though.
We could also use Repository as domain and add cardinality
restrictions to non-module Repos if the majority of repos usually
had a module concept, but I actually don't know which version is
more elegant or makes more sense..
>
>Dan
>
>
benjamin
--
Benjamin Nowack
Kruppstr. 100
45145 Essen, Germany
http://www.appmosphere.com/
From danbri at w3.org Thu Jul 22 20:50:44 2004
From: danbri at w3.org (Dan Brickley)
Date: Thu Jul 22 20:51:03 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] doap:revision, sorting and version number notations
Message-ID: <20040722195044.GT31660@homer.w3.org>
Moving a suggestion from IRC:
edd? thought re doap:revision ... it would be good to be
able to sort on that field...
do you mean that i need to make changes to facilitate
sorting?
perhaps. the conventions seem chaotic.
10.1.2 etc vs floats vs stuff w/ 'a' 'b' etc mixed in...
feeding it to 'sort' would probably work
in most cases
one would hope projects are internally
consistent at least
yes
[...]
-- http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/foaf/2004-07-22#T19-47-08
A possible use case for clarifying this corner of the vocab (eg.
looking into the countless version notations out there) is the common
desire to be able to get a list of software versions in some sensible
order. Maybe release date would be another approach.
I don't have a concrete proposal, just a sense that projects do this is
lots of different ways, which might be in tension with being confident
that this field could be fed to a simple alpha/num 'sort' algorithm of
some kind.
Use case: "Find me the latest version of ..."
cheers,
Dan
From edd at usefulinc.com Thu Jul 22 19:19:16 2004
From: edd at usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill)
Date: Thu Jul 22 21:31:20 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] DOAP-a-matic
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <1090520356.4294.7.camel@nova.heddley.com>
On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 20:09 +0200, balbinus wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've made a "DOAP-a-matic" tool in order to allow people to create their
> DOAP data online.
This rocks, thanks. It should encourage me to complete the work on the
validator and viewer.
> Here it is: creator.php>. It doesn't accept (for the moment!) complicated stuff
> (repositories, people, etc... everything that need a class), but it will!
Yeah, my viewer leaves off repositories for now :>
> PS: Edd: *I* created my DOAP file first ;) lol (but that's true ;)
Aha, then you are adopter #0!
-- Edd
From edd at usefulinc.com Thu Jul 22 23:39:34 2004
From: edd at usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill)
Date: Thu Jul 22 23:39:51 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] [ANN] DOAP (Description of a Project) Vocabulary
Message-ID: <1090535974.4294.13.camel@nova.heddley.com>
[This is a more a heads-up to find interested parties rather than
announcing a finished product. I'm especially looking for people who
want their favourite programming language to have DOAP support. See the
DOAOP home page, link below, for more information.]
DOAP (Description of a Project) Vocabulary
DOAP is a project to create an XML/RDF vocabulary to describe open
source projects.
Initial goals include:
* Internationalizable description of a software project and its
associated resources, including participants and Web resources
* Basic tools to enable the easy creation and consumption of such
descriptions
* Interoperability with other popular Web metadata
projects (RSS, FOAF, Dublin Core)
* The ability to extend the vocabulary for specialist purposes
I am working towards a beta release of tools and documentation for
the vocabulary, and now want to raise awareness so potential
contributors can get involved. The project has a mailing list,
linked from the home page.
regards
-- Edd
--
Edd Dumbill
Editor at Large, O'Reilly Network
Chair, XML Europe
From lyle.johnson at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 03:16:49 2004
From: lyle.johnson at gmail.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Fri Jul 23 03:17:07 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Linking DOAP file from foaf:currentProject?
Message-ID:
So, does it make sense to use an rdfs:seeAlso property inside a
foaf:Project to link to the project's DOAP file, e.g.
FXRubyA Ruby language binding to the FOX GUI
toolkit
Thanks,
Lyle
P.S. Am I adopter #4? ;)
From iand at internetalchemy.org Fri Jul 23 07:02:23 2004
From: iand at internetalchemy.org (Ian Davis)
Date: Fri Jul 23 09:26:22 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] doap:revision,
sorting and version number notations
In-Reply-To: <20040722195044.GT31660@homer.w3.org>
References: <20040722195044.GT31660@homer.w3.org>
Message-ID: <4100A9EF.7000208@internetalchemy.org>
On 22/07/2004 20:50, Dan Brickley wrote:
> Use case: "Find me the latest version of ..."
What about a doap:latestVersion property that points to the latest in
the same way that many software distros keep a latest pointer to the
latest release?
This sidesteps problems with projects altering their version numbering
and with project that use dotted triplets or quada (e.g. v 1.9.3 is an
earlier release than v 1.15.1 but a sort wouldn't pick that out)
Ian
From balbinus at bonjourlesmouettes.org Fri Jul 23 10:40:52 2004
From: balbinus at bonjourlesmouettes.org (balbinus)
Date: Fri Jul 23 10:40:01 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] doap:revision,
sorting and version number notations
In-Reply-To: <4100A9EF.7000208@internetalchemy.org>
Message-ID:
Hi,
> > Use case: "Find me the latest version of ..."
> What about a doap:latestVersion property that points to the latest in
> the same way that many software distros keep a latest pointer to the
> latest release?
According to "Describe open source projects with XML part III"
(),
doap:version's have to be current versions (with, if necessary, different
branches): "Although [...] the tracking of each project release is not part
of the first phase of DOAP, you still a need to describe current releases of
software projects".
> This sidesteps problems with projects altering their version numbering
> and with project that use dotted triplets or quada (e.g. v 1.9.3 is an
> earlier release than v 1.15.1 but a sort wouldn't pick that out)
To solve this problem, it could be an idea to create new elements /
attributes: doap:versionNumberMajor, doap:version#Minor, etc... But that
would be really... heavy.
Furthermore, a parser could explode such a version number (1.15.1) using the
dots, and think according to it: if the leftmost number of the version a is
greater than the leftmost number of the version b, then... etc.
Another problem will be with alphas, betas and release candidates (a, b,
rc)... Still the problem of standardization.
Cordialement,
Vincent TABARD
http://www.balbinus.net
http://www.terratettofiorentino.com
http://www.fluorine-cms.net
http://www.radiopytagor.com
http://prgmti.balbinus.net
http://rdfpic.balbinus.net
http://www.sidar.org/wshoy/
http://www.bonjourlesmouettes.org
From jsled at asynchronous.org Fri Jul 23 12:38:30 2004
From: jsled at asynchronous.org (Josh Sled)
Date: Fri Jul 23 12:38:43 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] doap:revision, sorting and version number
notations
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <1090582709.10285.9.camel@phoenix>
On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 05:40, balbinus wrote:
> Another problem will be with alphas, betas and release candidates (a, b,
> rc)... Still the problem of standardization.
Time is pretty standardized; I'd encourage...
[[[
doap:releaseDate a rdf:Property
; rdfs:comment "When a particular release was made."@en
; rdfs:label "Version release date+time."@en
; rdfs:domain doap:Version;
; rdfs:range xsd:datetime
.
doap: a owl:Ontology
; rdfs:subPropertyOf
[ a owl:Restriction
; owl:onProperty doap:releaseDate
; owl:cardinality 1 ]
.
]]]
Speaking of time, is there any reason that doap:created isn't
rdfs:range'ed to xsd:date? In fact ... could it be dropped in favor of
dc:created?
...jsled
--
http://www.asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}`
From edd at usefulinc.com Fri Jul 23 12:54:58 2004
From: edd at usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill)
Date: Fri Jul 23 12:55:11 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] doap:revision,sorting and version number notations
Message-ID: <1090583698.4294.26.camel@nova.heddley.com>
On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 11:40 +0200, balbinus wrote:
> According to "Describe open source projects with XML part III"
> (),
> doap:version's have to be current versions (with, if necessary,
> different
> branches): "Although [...] the tracking of each project release is not
> part
> of the first phase of DOAP, you still a need to describe current
> releases of
> software projects".
Yep, that's the intention. I deliberately made it this simple. The
reason for this is that if you're going to start describing each release
in any more detail, there's actually a lot more you want to say, such as
ChangeLogs, NEWS files and so on that would clutter up the DOAP file
itself.
I've not yet decided what the best course of action is: whether to have
another rdf file per release, or to make a changelog.rdf file that just
grows and grows, and maybe conforms to RSS 1.0 so people can subscribe
to it in feedreaders.
-- Edd
PS
Also note that the style for DOAP is not propertiesLikeThis but
properties-like-this. Apparently some N3 processors have difficulties
with it, but they need fixing as these are perfectly acceptable names
within the RDF spec as far as I can tell. Turtle copes OK with them.
From edd at usefulinc.com Fri Jul 23 13:14:09 2004
From: edd at usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill)
Date: Fri Jul 23 13:14:15 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] doap:revision, sorting and version number
notations
In-Reply-To: <1090582709.10285.9.camel@phoenix>
References:
<1090582709.10285.9.camel@phoenix>
Message-ID: <1090584849.4294.34.camel@nova.heddley.com>
On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 07:38 -0400, Josh Sled wrote:
>
> Speaking of time, is there any reason that doap:created isn't
> rdfs:range'ed to xsd:date? In fact ... could it be dropped in favor
> of
> dc:created?
Well, I think XML schema dates are brain damaged. I don't want
processing tools to have to understand them. The YYYY-MM-DD profile of
ISO dates is trivially processible and understood by all.
No, but it should be made that doap:created is a subproperty of dc:
created in the schema. Excepting rdf: and rdfs: namespaces, there
should be no other namespaces in a "standard" DOAP description.
RDF-savvy people are of course free to do whatever they want with the
terms, but a simple DOAP description should be just that. For better or
for worse, it's going to be a large jump for some people even to write
XML, never mind the rest of it.
The aim of the project is to get interchange of project information
going, with the advantage that it's RDF processible. It's not to make
an RDF/OWL-centric project for its own sake. So where possible I'll be
shifting the semantic burden onto the schema and keeping it out of the
XML that adopters have to write down.
Btw, I do very much appreciate and need all the interest and
suggestions, but I just wanted to clarify my intentions at this early
stage!
-- Edd
From danbri at w3.org Fri Jul 23 13:49:44 2004
From: danbri at w3.org (Dan Brickley)
Date: Fri Jul 23 13:49:58 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] doap:revision,
sorting and version number notations
In-Reply-To: <1090584849.4294.34.camel@nova.heddley.com>
References:
<1090582709.10285.9.camel@phoenix>
<1090584849.4294.34.camel@nova.heddley.com>
Message-ID: <20040723124944.GG15222@homer.w3.org>
* Edd Dumbill [2004-07-23 13:14+0100]
> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 07:38 -0400, Josh Sled wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of time, is there any reason that doap:created isn't
> > rdfs:range'ed to xsd:date? In fact ... could it be dropped in favor
> > of
> > dc:created?
>
> Well, I think XML schema dates are brain damaged. I don't want
Another reason to not do this is that RDF requires that each occurance
of a datatyped literal be decorated with 'rdf:datatype="big ugly URI"'
in the XML. It scares away folks who look at the XML notation and for
questionable gain, given maturity of RDF tool support for datatyping
(eg. fancy searching, indexing etc). Maybe things will improve as the
DAWG query work comes together.
I'm happy seeing this as a doap: property, perhaps subpropertying a
relevant DC term in a neighbourly sort of a way.
Dan
From crschmidt at crschmidt.net Sat Jul 24 04:14:32 2004
From: crschmidt at crschmidt.net (Christopher Schmidt)
Date: Sat Jul 24 04:15:11 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] DOAP Bookmarklet
Message-ID: <20040724031432.GA24551@zeus.mv.com>
I'm probably stepping on stork's toes here, since a lot of the work
going on is really with and because of him, but a ton of FOAF people are
helping to test and use these tools, so I'm just going to go ahead and
drop this in here for others.
Stork has created a DOAP-Viewer web service, available at
http://mouettes.balbinus.net/doap-viewer.php
This page will accept just about anything, and spit out a human readable
visual of the DOAP.
In addition, Stork modified mortenf's FOAF Explorer bookmarklet to work
for the DOAP viewer. The bookmarklet is:
javascript:void(d=document);void(el=d.getElementsByTagName('link'));for(i=0;i
Hello,
It's me once more announcing another DOAP app: DOAP Annuaire
(). It's basically an
open list of DOAP files.
Here's my list of DOAP-related apps:
. DOAP Viewer, to display DOAPs
().
. DOAP XHTML Extractor, to extract DOAP metadata s from an (X)HTML
page (), or its
bookmarklet version (see ,
thanks Christopher :).
. DOAP Annuaire, where you can add your DOAP file to our list and say "I'm a
pioneer!" ;) And do not forget DOAP-a-matic...
()
Well, I'm leaving tomorrow to go to Italia, so I won't be able to connect a
lot... But I will take a laptop with me, so I will still be able to work on
DOAP (make it valid XHTML could be a first interesting thing ;)! Oh, by the
way, you can still send me mail to this address: webmaster@balbinus.net,
I'll receive them, if you feel an urgent need to mail me ;)
Cordialement,
Vincent TABARD
http://www.balbinus.net
http://www.terratettofiorentino.com
http://www.fluorine-cms.net
http://www.radiopytagor.com
http://prgmti.balbinus.net
http://rdfpic.balbinus.net
http://www.sidar.org/wshoy/
http://www.bonjourlesmouettes.org
From crschmidt at crschmidt.net Sun Jul 25 01:38:19 2004
From: crschmidt at crschmidt.net (Christopher Schmidt)
Date: Sun Jul 25 01:38:38 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] DOAP Firefox extension
Message-ID: <20040725003819.GA30787@zeus.mv.com>
Coming hot on the heels of the announcement of the DOAP bookmarklet is
the DOAP Firefox extension. Designed to let you know when a page has
information about it in a DOAP file attached, this extension places a
small image in the lower right hand corner of your browser. Greyed out
by default, this icon lights up whenever it finds a DOAP file. You can
then click the icon to open the page in stork's DOAP-viewer.
My first ever Firefox extension, built with a ton of help from Joel De
Gan ( http://peoplesdns.org ). Could probably be extended to do a whole
lot more - a little pop up menu from the icon, for example, allowing you
to do other fun things like copy the CVS server info or something like
that. However, I just wanted to get this out there and some feedback on
it first.
http://crschmidt.livejournal.com/257882.html is my post on DOAP from
last night - expect another post regarding the DOAP extension, simply
because I'm proud of it.
Any email on the extension can be sent to the list or to me directly.
Thanks!
--
Christopher Schmidt
crschmidt@crschmidt.net
From andy.piper at freeuk.com Tue Jul 27 16:51:30 2004
From: andy.piper at freeuk.com (Andy Piper)
Date: Tue Jul 27 16:51:48 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Linking DOAP from FOAF
Message-ID: <3460.32.106.40.226.1090943490.squirrel@32.106.40.226>
GnomeSword is now using DOAP
(http://gnomesword.sf.net/gnomesword.doap.rdf) - not sure what
number adopter that makes us, but who's counting? :-)
Can anyone explain how this should be linked from my FOAF
description?
--
Andy Piper - Farnborough, Hampshire (UK)
http://jumpgate.homelinux.net/
From mof-rdf at mfd-consult.dk Tue Jul 27 18:11:08 2004
From: mof-rdf at mfd-consult.dk (Morten Frederiksen)
Date: Tue Jul 27 18:11:29 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Linking DOAP from FOAF
In-Reply-To: <3460.32.106.40.226.1090943490.squirrel@32.106.40.226>
References: <3460.32.106.40.226.1090943490.squirrel@32.106.40.226>
Message-ID: <200407271911.08752.mof-rdf@mfd-consult.dk>
'lo all,
On Tuesday 27 July 2004 17:51, Andy Piper wrote:
> GnomeSword is now using DOAP
> (http://gnomesword.sf.net/gnomesword.doap.rdf) - not sure what
> number adopter that makes us, but who's counting? :-)
This one also has the problem with the wrong FOAF namespace, it should end
with a "/", not a "#".
> Can anyone explain how this should be linked from my FOAF
> description?
The simple way would be to use seeAlso, possibly combined with currentProject:
...
...
...
Regards,
Morten
From andy.piper at freeuk.com Wed Jul 28 15:41:54 2004
From: andy.piper at freeuk.com (Andy Piper)
Date: Wed Jul 28 15:42:10 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Linking DOAP from FOAF
In-Reply-To: <200407271911.08752.mof-rdf@mfd-consult.dk>
References: <3460.32.106.40.226.1090943490.squirrel@32.106.40.226>
<200407271911.08752.mof-rdf@mfd-consult.dk>
Message-ID: <33794.192.168.1.12.1091025714.squirrel@192.168.1.12>
Morten Frederiksen said:
> On Tuesday 27 July 2004 17:51, Andy Piper wrote:
>> GnomeSword is now using DOAP
>> (http://gnomesword.sf.net/gnomesword.doap.rdf)
>> - not sure what number adopter that makes us,
>> but who's counting? :-)
> This one also has the problem with the wrong FOAF
> namespace, it should end with a "/", not a "#".
Thanks for pointing this out, now fixed.
>> Can anyone explain how this should be linked from my FOAF
>> description?
> The simple way would be to use seeAlso, possibly
> combined with currentProject:
Perfect. Thanks.
Andy
--
Andy Piper - Farnborough, Hampshire (UK)
http://jumpgate.homelinux.net/
From pldms at mac.com Wed Jul 28 17:24:26 2004
From: pldms at mac.com (Damian Steer)
Date: Wed Jul 28 17:25:08 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Bug: doap:os
Message-ID: <4107D33A.8080102@mac.com>
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Hi all,
[Reminder from #foaf]
The doap:os rdfs:comment states:
"Operating system that a project is limited to. Omit this property if
the project is not OS-specific"
Omitting a property to mean negation (i.e. not OS specific) is a mistake
given the open world of RDF [*]. I'd suggest changing the rdfs:comment
to say "State 'cross platform' if the project is not OS specific" (or
something like that). Perhaps this property would be better as
specifying a platform more generally, like java (JVM)?
Damian
[*] To reiterate the issue: if my document has no doap:os for project
'Foo' is Foo cross platform, or is the information simply incomplete
(perhaps lurking at the end of an rdfs:seeAlso)?
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From lion at speakeasy.org Wed Jul 28 08:06:05 2004
From: lion at speakeasy.org (Lion Kimbro)
Date: Wed Jul 28 17:35:30 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] OneBigSoup DOAP entry
Message-ID: <1090998364.2954.113.camel@taoriver.net>
I've written up a DOAP entry for OneBigSoup, and linked it
from our project page, if anyone is interested in trying out
the Mozilla extension:
http://onebigsoup.taoriver.net/
The DOAP entry itself is:
http://onebigsoup.taoriver.net/doap.rdf
I wish I were able to kill the old cache entry,
because http://mouettes.balbinus.net/doap-viewer.php
seems to be stuck on an older version of the page.
People here may also be interested in another idea-
"ProjectSpace"-
http://communitywiki.org/ProjectSpace
In particular, on that page is a mock-up drawing of what
a ProjectSpaceNetwork browser could look like:
http://taoriver.net/img/for_cw/project-space.png
To make DOAP able to maintain some sort of "project space,"
the vocabulary would have to let you connect projects.
Let you say "this project is associated with this other
project," or something like that.
Take care,
Lion =^_^=
--
http://speakeasy.org/~lion/ LionKimbro@jabber.org Seattle, WA
From ndw at nwalsh.com Wed Jul 28 19:34:40 2004
From: ndw at nwalsh.com (Norman Walsh)
Date: Wed Jul 28 19:37:34 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Bug: doap:os
In-Reply-To: <4107D33A.8080102@mac.com>
References: <4107D33A.8080102@mac.com>
Message-ID: <87acxkx9of.fsf@nwalsh.com>
/ Damian Steer was heard to say:
| "Operating system that a project is limited to. Omit this property if
| the project is not OS-specific"
|
| Omitting a property to mean negation (i.e. not OS specific) is a mistake
| given the open world of RDF [*]. I'd suggest changing the rdfs:comment
Good catch.
And I wonder if we shouldn't have a list of URIs for languages and
platforms, just like we now have a list for licenses.
Be seeing you,
norm
--
Norman Walsh | Almost every man wastes part of his
http://nwalsh.com/ | life in attempts to display qualities
| which he does not possess, and to gain
| applause which he cannot keep.--Dr.
| Johnson
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From edd at usefulinc.com Wed Jul 28 19:47:12 2004
From: edd at usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill)
Date: Wed Jul 28 19:47:47 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Bug: doap:os
In-Reply-To: <87acxkx9of.fsf@nwalsh.com>
References: <4107D33A.8080102@mac.com> <87acxkx9of.fsf@nwalsh.com>
Message-ID: <1091040432.3296.7.camel@nova.heddley.com>
On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 14:34 -0400, Norman Walsh wrote:
> / Damian Steer was heard to say:
> | "Operating system that a project is limited to. Omit this property if
> | the project is not OS-specific"
> |
> | Omitting a property to mean negation (i.e. not OS specific) is a mistake
> | given the open world of RDF [*]. I'd suggest changing the rdfs:comment
>
> Good catch.
Yep, I think that I will advise the string "any" for meaning cross
platform.
> And I wonder if we shouldn't have a list of URIs for languages and
> platforms, just like we now have a list for licenses.
I'm not sure about that, primarily as I don't want to maintain it.
My thinking so far is that doap:category could be used with a list of
URIs that somebody else manages.
the os and programming-language terms are dubious in this way I suspect,
and would better replaced with specialisations of doap:category.
Unfortunately it also makes it a lot harder to create the doap in the
first place then.
-- Edd
From danny666 at virgilio.it Wed Jul 28 20:05:06 2004
From: danny666 at virgilio.it (Danny Ayers)
Date: Wed Jul 28 20:08:05 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] OneBigSoup DOAP entry
In-Reply-To: <1090998364.2954.113.camel@taoriver.net>
References: <1090998364.2954.113.camel@taoriver.net>
Message-ID: <4107F8E2.6060106@virgilio.it>
Lion Kimbro wrote:
> People here may also be interested in another idea-
> "ProjectSpace"-
>
> http://communitywiki.org/ProjectSpace
>
>
Yep, that appeals.
Maybe a good place for me to sneak in a hobby horse of my own ;-) Edd
was kind enough to link in to my general-purpose project vocab efforts
[1] in the ibm docs, and I've been trying to think of the best way of
tying it in to DOAP. Pre-DOAP I was imagining the definition of a
software project as being quite a specialization, though having just
used the DOAP-a-matic to create a project profile for my blog, rather a
lot of it is directly reusable in other domains. For my own stuff I was
after a common vocab whether it was a software project, building a house
or feeding the cats. The idea being that the same tools could be used
for project management, whatever the project. Keying into the web could
make resources more available/sharable, RDF and OWL provide convenient
representation and inference capability. Ok, so what I'm *really* after
is a tool at which I can throw all my to-do lists, goals and dependency
relationships and it will tell me what little thing would be the best
next half-hour action. I have (more than once) started code for this,
but keep finding myself short of time to take it forward. Catch 22 and
all that. Suggestions welcome ;-)
> To make DOAP able to maintain some sort of "project space,"
> the vocabulary would have to let you connect projects.
> Let you say "this project is associated with this other
> project," or something like that.
>
>
Hmm, more than a seeAlso? What if some of the nodes were the same:
people involved, places, even dependencies and goals - wouldn't that
make (discoverable) associations?
Cheers,
Danny.
[1] http://purl.org/stuff/project/
(itself DOAPed)
--
Raw
http://dannyayers.com
From pldms at mac.com Wed Jul 28 22:42:56 2004
From: pldms at mac.com (Damian Steer)
Date: Wed Jul 28 22:43:21 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Bug: doap:os
In-Reply-To: <1091040432.3296.7.camel@nova.heddley.com>
References: <4107D33A.8080102@mac.com> <87acxkx9of.fsf@nwalsh.com>
<1091040432.3296.7.camel@nova.heddley.com>
Message-ID: <1627E6A4-E0DF-11D8-8E31-000393C582D4@mac.com>
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[bah, forgot to Cc list]
On 28 Jul 2004, at 19:47, Edd Dumbill wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 14:34 -0400, Norman Walsh wrote:
>> / Damian Steer was heard to say:
>> | "Operating system that a project is limited to. Omit this property
>> if
>> | the project is not OS-specific"
>> |
>> | Omitting a property to mean negation (i.e. not OS specific) is a
>> mistake
>> | given the open world of RDF [*]. I'd suggest changing the
>> rdfs:comment
>>
>> Good catch.
Credit to Morten's schema viewer, and Edd for linking to it in his
article. I'm lazy :-)
...
>> And I wonder if we shouldn't have a list of URIs for languages and
>> platforms, just like we now have a list for licenses.
>
> I'm not sure about that, primarily as I don't want to maintain it.
I understand that. One option would be using a URI, but not maintaining
a list. Is that any worse than uncontrolled literals? I'm not sure.
Perhaps there's more chance of convergence with URIs.
If some brave soul wants to categorise those URIs later then they can,
which would be harder with literals.
Another option is indirection via an intermediate node to a literal.
The XML isn't so bad using this (unusual) rdf construct:
If people want add more info on that intermediate node then there's
space. It doesn't even need to be a blank node, which gives us the best
(or is it worst?) of both worlds.
Anyway, there are a couple of ideas.
Damian
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From shaunm at gnome.org Wed Jul 28 22:46:29 2004
From: shaunm at gnome.org (Shaun McCance)
Date: Wed Jul 28 22:47:21 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Stuff I'd like to model
Message-ID: <1091051188.8335.43.camel@shaunmlx.wolfram.com>
So here's a list of things that I'd like to be able to model, but can't
with DOAP alone. I can, of course, always go off and make my own little
extensions, but there's a chance others might be interested in this kind
of stuff too. Also, working with others reduces the chances of me doing
something stupid.
Branches
I'd like to be able to specify branches of programs, not so much in the
CVS sense (though I'll come to that later), but the "series of related
releases" sense. So 2.6.0, 2.6.1, and 2.6.2 would all be on the 2.6
branch. 2.6.2 could very well be released after 2.7.0. This is common
practice. What's on a branch might vary from project to project (i.e.
bug fixes only, features but no incompatibilities, etc.). That sort of
information isn't useful to me at the moment, but it might be useful to
others. Perhaps series is a better term for this.
Aggregate Projects
I'd like to model the GNOME Desktop as a Project. It doesn't have any
single CVS location, or any single tarball. Rather, it's a collection
of other projects. In particular, I'd like to say that the GNOME 2.7.x
series contains the gnome-desktop 2.7.x series, the metacity 2.8.x
series, the yelp 2.6.x series, etc. Also, that the GNOME 2.7.4 release
contains gnome-desktop 2.7.4, metacity 2.8.1, yelp 2.6.1, etc.
Branches and Tags, CVS Style
It's common practice to tag releases in CVS. So to get Yelp 2.6.1, you
can check out the yelp module with the tag YELP_2_6_1. I'd like to give
the CVS tag for any particular doap:Version. Along the same lines, it's
common for continued development of a branch/series (as above) to happen
on a branch in CVS. So I'd like to give the CVS branch for continued
development of a series.
Subprojects
This is similar to aggregate projects above. In fact, they can probably
both be modelled the same way. It's just a matter of what level the
actual tarball releases are made at. So gnome-utils contains logview,
gsearchtool, gdictsrc, and gfloppy. These are sort of projects in their
own right, sometimes even with seperate maintainers, but they don't have
their own CVS module or tarball releases.
Documentation
DOAP provides doap:documenter, which is nice. But it doesn't provide a
whole lot of information about the documentation itself. Documentation
can be a project in its own right, and I'd like to model that. Nautilus
doesn't have its own documentation. Rather, the documentation for it is
in the GNOME User Guide, which is shipped in gnome-user-docs. Even for
projects that do ship their own documentation, I'd like to consider the
documentation to be a subproject (as above), and link them.
I have some ideas on how to model some of this information, but I find
that nobody reads emails that are much larger than this. So I'm just
throwing this out there for comments right now.
--
Shaun
From crschmidt at crschmidt.net Fri Jul 30 03:28:09 2004
From: crschmidt at crschmidt.net (Christopher Schmidt)
Date: Fri Jul 30 03:30:34 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] :maintains, :translates, etc.
Message-ID: <20040730022809.GA22048@zeus.mv.com>
Currently, DOAP describes relationships from Projects->People:
:maintainer, :translator, etc. This is pretty good for project
descriptions, but useless for describing what I personally do, modelling
the projects I work on and so on.
I would like to see inverse terms added: :maintains, :translates, etc.
Rather than having the domain of a project and range of a person, it
would be done the other way around: the domain is of a person, and the
range is of a project.
The use of this would be to easily describe, starting from a person, a
web of projects they are involved in. I :develop LiveJournal, SDLRoads
and DOAPer. Once this is defined, people can then crawl either way -
from person to project or project to person. This would be great to see
what else other people are working on. I know that I love finding
projects that friends in the web are working on.
I know that DOAP is attempting to be small/lightweight, and more
oriented towards describing projects than the relationships therein, but
it seems to me that creating these inverses is relatively trivial, as
well as being pretty useful in terms of creating browsable data.
Basically, this would be a more specific way of listing a
currentProject, I suppose: a more explicit subclassing of that
relationship from FOAF. However, I think that it would be a useful
addition to the schema, for the purpose of finding other projects that
your friends might be working on.
-- Christopher Schmidt
From rich.boakes at port.ac.uk Fri Jul 30 09:37:27 2004
From: rich.boakes at port.ac.uk (rich boakes)
Date: Fri Jul 30 09:37:41 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] :maintains, :translates, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20040730022809.GA22048@zeus.mv.com>
References: <20040730022809.GA22048@zeus.mv.com>
Message-ID: <410A08C7.6030100@port.ac.uk>
Christopher Schmidt wrote:
> I know that DOAP is attempting to be small/lightweight,
> and more oriented towards describing projects than the
> relationships therein, but it seems to me that creating
> these inverses is relatively trivial, as well as being
> pretty useful in terms of creating browsable data.
+1
I was wondering about the same additions myself over the
last few days and keeping DOAP unpolluted makes sense.
Using a separate schema for modeling temporal reification
would seem like a good route since both current (and IMO
more importantly) historical relationships could be modeled
using the same mechanism.
##########
[* note ??? namespace.]
/me wonders about having the content automatically generated
based on CVS activity :-)
_______________________________________________
rich boakes.org
From mof-rdf at mfd-consult.dk Fri Jul 30 22:40:24 2004
From: mof-rdf at mfd-consult.dk (Morten Frederiksen)
Date: Fri Jul 30 22:40:20 2004
Subject: [doap-interest] Linking DOAP from FOAF
In-Reply-To: <20040728222719.GB26565@zeus.mv.com>
References: <3460.32.106.40.226.1090943490.squirrel@32.106.40.226>
<200407282113.49858.mof-rdf@mfd-consult.dk>
<20040728222719.GB26565@zeus.mv.com>
Message-ID: <200407302340.24775.mof-rdf@mfd-consult.dk>
On Thursday 29 July 2004 00:27, Christopher Schmidt wrote:
> Is there any discussion on creating some kind of description of the
> content at a link, such that it could be determined whether it's rdf, or
> HTML, or whatever?
You can always type the link and provide more information:
application/rdf+xml
or so and so on...
BTW, one thing that DOAP might find useful to adopt early on is the use of
self-description (information about the document containing the description)
and e.g. foaf:primaryTopic. One of the most problematic issues with FOAF
documents in the past has been "how to figure out what/who a file is about".
This is now resolved, but only for "new" files that provide the necessary
information about themselves...
Regards,
Morten