Welcome, and some comments (was RE: [rdfweb-dev] hey)

[Marc Canter]

I originally wrote.....

> As TypePad comes out and sets in stone the usage of FOAF as a blogroll
> representation system

TypePad is, I'm sure, an important application, but in the world of FOAF
it's just one application.  I don't think it's as pivotal as you suggest
here and in http://blogs.it/0100198/2003/06/30.html#a1358

The weblogging world is a cool place, but it's not everywhere.

================================

My response is............

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the blogosphere is everything,
what I'm saying is that for FOAF to be accepted it needs commercial
products, with logical, well thought out user experiences - which aren't
predicated on voodoo knowledge, insider hints and tips and the current
world of "oh gee, don't you know about....."

That's the world of FOAF today.

================================

When I further blabbed in about SixApart, Edd then replied.......

You're in agreement with the community with these goals: your points
here seem to be congruent with the aims of FOAF and other emergent
semantic web interest areas such as RDF calendaring and geographical
apps.  People are very active in these areas already.  From the
perspective of seeing the current interest areas and applications, I'd
dispute that SixApart is some sort of golden key here.  It's already
happening.

=================================

So I respectfully disagree.........

As much as you think FOAF is happening, I gotta say that........ well
just look at Jay Feinberg's recent journey
(http://icite.net/blog/200307/foaf_ok.html&smm=y.)  Jay is a very smart
guy and let me tell you my own journey parallels Jay's experiences.

This stuff is FAR from obvious, well documented, supported or,,,,

Let's just say - I REALLY appreciate the work everyone has been putting
into this - but I'm a product guy who makes software for humans.  FOAF
is not about humans right now.  It's for computer scientists.

==================================


> Thanks Ben - for getting this started.  And thank you Morten for the
> cool, new FOAF Explorer features.

Maybe I misinterpret, but just for the record, I think the blame for
starting FOAF can be placed with Dan Brickley and Libby Miller, named as
the primary authors in the spec.

===================================

Marc humbly apologizes...... 

There I go - putting my foot in my mouth!  OF COURSE I understand that
Libby and Dan are the originating and driving forces here.  But if it
weren't for the imitable likes of Mr. Ben Hammersley - I wouldn't be
here.  Or Morten.  Or Danny Ayers.

Remember it's about links in the chain.  I haven't even met Libby or Dan
yet - but let me tell you - Ben puts on a good show.  When he showed how
RDF and RSS 2.0 (via ENT) could both represent topics - the veil of
complexity of RDF was lifted - for me.  So I give credit where credit is
due.

So when I said "getting this started" - that's what I was referring to.

=====================================

I further went on to look like a combination of an utter oaf and starry
eyed dreamer.....

> Now it's time to get this stuff into the hands - of the people!

I enjoy your energy, Marc, but parts of your posts to this list read
like you don't believe people here had considered these things.  Dan
Brickley and many others have put a lot of thought, time and energy into
this project: it's not just been languishing the last two years,
important work has been going on.

======================================

So I again have to apologize.......

Yes - I understand all that......... [see below]

=======================================

Edd goes on to eloquently point out............

FOAF's worked well as an under-the-radar project, with people getting
interested, writing code, and thus having influence in the project.  In
the big bad world, everybody thinks they can have a say and disaster
results (we don't have to look too far for examples.)

Before the adoption explosion happens, some issues must be resolved. 
For example, a structure for the evolvability and governance of FOAF
needs to be put into place before putting it into the hands of
everyone.  Leigh's earlier comments about tagging the stability of
certain parts of FOAF is a case in point.  FOAF's a live, wiggly,
creature.  Setting things in stone too early could be bad.

While there maybe isn't yet an explicit masterplan, I, and others who
participate in creating FOAF tools, view Dan Brickley as the leader of
this community and in charge of FOAF's direction.

Please realise I don't mean to be a party pooper.  Welcome to the
community, it's a fun place to be!

I just wanted to point out that it's not a land of dreamers or naifs
here.  There's a lot of work gone into this project, and an established
way of becoming involved in it -- spend some time getting a feel for
what's going on, and then contribute in terms of code and
documentation.  I'm personally not convinced that a big marketing plan
is yet what we need, nor a reach for world domination.  There are plenty
of cool things FOAF can steal or learn from other, similar, efforts.

Speaking for myself only,

regards

-- Edd

====================================

Ok - so...........

.............I suggest/request a formal FOAF.org get set up.  That would
make it easier to find info on FOAF, get you/us started in the direction
of formal specs and governance and create a catalyst for deployment.

............. I myself have found two ways of connecting friends to
friends.  I met Aaron Schwartz last night and he admitted that maybe the
technique he used wasn't "kosher".  So best practices and self
monitoring might be in order - right now.

............  The type of inter-connectivity that me, Jay Feinberg and
others are attempting - is a good first test at inter-operability.  For
instance - just trying to get:
	- FOAF Explorer
	- FOAF-a-matic
	- FOAFnaut
	- and some list somewhere of FOAF accounts

working together seamlessly might be a great start.  This issue of
spurious and mal-formed FOAF files is a concern.  I can see the wiggle
clearly - from where I'm sitting.

..............  I understand that it's too early for grand marketing
schemes - but as I started off my initial message - the train is leaving
the station on FOAF and what I'd like to point out is that over and over
again - we've all learned that the first 'to market' often defines the
market.

Just one word to remind you of the ramifications of that = "Dave Winer".

So as much as I appreciate the 'percolation time' time you've all put in
- I highly suggest that..........

Well let's just say.......... here we go!